You're mostly known for 'everyman' roles. Why did you decide to play Norfolk, a traitor, in Elizabeth? 
It was interesting that they thought of me. I've always known I can play villains, but in this country they don't exercise much imagination in casting. 
When I first met [director] Shekhar Kapur I said,'I'm interested, but I've got some concerns about Norfolk being one-dimensional: I actually talked myself 
out of a lot of scenes. Why? There was an early draft where Norfolk was sexually perverse - that was signalling to the audience 'This man will not make it 
because he's a bit weird in bed; which is simplistic in the extreme. I tried to make him a decent man, who was motivated to a certain extent by keeping his 
head on his shoulders. They were very paranoiac, brutal times. Nothing's changed. 


You worked on Jimmy McGovern's TV plays Hillsborough and Hearts And Minds. Are you involved with his Mary Queen of Scots script? 

I'd love to do something like that written by Jimmy. 
When I got cast in Hearts And Minds, I remember him saying to me,'I'm glad you got it, I'm sick of the tired old faces: Now, though, to think I might be 
one of those tired old faces. I'd like to think they'd think about me, but I suspect they won't because I've done Elizabeth. 


You're in his new project, Heart. What's it about? 

It's quite complicated. I play a man whose wife is unfaithful. He's obsessively jealous, which is aggravated by her infidelity. They're arguing one day and 
he has a heart attack. He's given the heart of a young boy who's been killed in a drink-driving incident, and it rejuvenates him. The film is about grief. 
Jimmy wrote it not long after writing Hillsborough - I think that had quite a profound effect on him, the research he did about parents losing their child. 
The mother of the young lad whose heart is beating in my chest becomes obsessed with me. My wife continues to have affairs, so in effect this woman's son's 
heart is being broken.' Is that clear? Yes.


Is he the writer you empathise with the most? 

Yeah, I think he's the best writer in Britain. We have similar influences. He's older and not as pretty as me, but he can write about contemporary issues 
and he can entertain. I think he's got a tremendous respect for his audience, a respect for their intelligence. Cracker demonstrated that - there were no 
villains, only people. I was very fortunate to work with him. 


You played Derek Bentley in Let Him Have It. How did you feel when he finally received a pardon? 

Well, Iris Bentley, Derek's sister, died 18 months ago. It leaves a bitter taste in your mouth that it took so long [45 years]. Having done Let Him Have 
It and Hillsborough doesn't leave me with much faith in our legal system. Hillsborough raised public consciousness, but do you really believe a film can 
change anything? No. What is it Elvis Costello said? "if you're going to fight the fascists, a bullet's better than a record. "Things were changed, though. 
People's perceptions of the events were changed by that film. I've had people tell me they didn't realise what had happened because the majority of the 
press coverage was Murdoch-owned and right-wing. But I do believe it can make a difference. If you change an individual, then you've changed something. 


So are you a crusader when choosing your roles? 

I don't join crusades, I look for intelligent scripts. If somebody is going to write about Hillsborough, or the failure of the left in Britain, which is 
to a certain extent what Our Friends In The North is about, or exclusion and society's problems with the individual, which is what Jude was about, it's 
probably going to be an intelligent script. I look for projects that I might want to watch myself. 


Is that why you've not done much work in the US? 

Yeah. I went there after Let Him Have It and read lots of scripts, and you actually feel filthy after reading them - they're so bad, so insulting to the 
audience. You can only do those films for the money, there is no other reason to do the majority of American films. But some interesting films do come 
along in the independent sector. 


You made A Price Above Rubies there. Were you surprised to get the role? 

It was a bit like Elizabeth. I thought they were exercising some imagination. ..The idea of playing a Brooklyn Hassidic Jew daunted me. I thought it could 
only be good for me as an actor. Even if it failed commercially, I'd have learned something. That's always my motivation: to be as good an actor as I can, 
in the circumstances. 


Did you have to do much research? 

I worked in LA for a month on the accent because [co-star] Renee Zellweger wanted to be in LA, and then I went to New York for a month's research. I read 
a lot around the subject to understand my character's very complicated relationship to his religion. 


Shallow Grave seems to be the odd film out in your career. Because it was successful commercially? 

Because it's a very cinematic and slightly superficial thriller. I went into that film because I was interested in the character and the story and because 
none of the characters were sympathetic. But it's Danny Boyle's film. I think the most eloquent thing I can say about Shallow Grave is that the best thing 
was the publlcity campaign. It's stylish but pretty empty. 
So it's not the sort of thing you'd do again? 
No. I wouldn't mind having a commercial film, because it would make things perhaps a little easier for me, but that's not my first instinct. Rightly or 
wrongly, my first instinct is not to think. Will this film work? Instead it's, Is this film an interesting story? Does this have some resonance? I don't 
work well in things which I don't feel strongly about. 


So in a way what appears to be principles is actually self-interest. Where does that come from? 

It comes from being a punter, sitting in cinemas or in front of a TV screen and feeling offended, patronised, preached at and looked down on. I've no 
desire to do that to an audience - and it's worked in my favour, because when people speak to me, they seem to appreciate the work I do. Look. I do a 
job that I love. And from the background I came from [working-class Manchester], I'm one of the few people who can say that. And I get very well paid. It's 
my duty to make something of value. It's very simple, really. So you don't have any snobbery about film being the 'best' medium to work in. If we're 
talking about Britain, I think the most important medium - culturally - is television. That's why the Conservative government neutered the BBC. Nowadays, 
something like Hillsborough comes along every... well, when? We're left with vets and soaps and casualty departments. Television is the most important 
medium, as theatre's incredibly elite and only a certain amount of people go to the cinema, but everyone's got a TV. The best work I've done has been on 
television - Hearts And Minds was the best performance I've given, and Our Friends In The North was the most challenging, for me and the people who watched 
it. 


Are you depressed that there aren't many quality programmes being made? 

Yeah, I'll be honest with you - I feel a bit lost. I don't particularly want just a film career, but there seems to be nothing in television and not much 
in film. I felt very enthused and engaged and happy working on Jude, Hillsborough, Hearts And Minds and Our Friends In The North - but I feel a bit lost 
at this point in my career.